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Post by Lord MIW on Dec 16, 2004 11:30:30 GMT -5
And yet again, in the eyes of the pediphile, its not perversion either. Who are we to judge his feelings for little Billy? Unless a person admits a sin and repents of it, of coarse they see nothing wrong with it. He could be voted People Magazine's Sexiest man alive too, it doesn't mean anything except that people like to alter history. Yup, The 'church' did alot of dumbass things in the middleages. Alot of churches do dumbass things now, like take for instance the United Church of Christ, whom have decided if you don't like a verse in the Bible...ignore it. God doesn't care about your sexual preferences Revelation talks of several churches that will lead people astray in the last days. That is why christians need to follow the will of God, not the decsions of 'The Church' Marraige SHOULD be a union before God. The divorce rate is so high (and it is actually a bit higher INSIDE the church, than it is in the secular world) Because even alot of so called christains don't take thier vows seriously either. That doesn't mean you should take God out of it entirly. A marriage of a man and a woman, not before God, is just as bad as a homosexual marraige Because love is not a sin. Calling love a perversion... come off it. No, save you to do that. I suppose he wasn't a Jew either? And that you know for sure he was born in Bethlehem. And yet you still go to a church. Tell me Angelus, if you follow God's will, then why aren't you all doing what Jesus did and giving all of your possesions to the needy? So love doesn't count? Divorce rate is nothing to do with God, it's to do with love. If people don't love each other, then they break apart. What has God got to do with that? All he forces you to do is stay in a loveless marriage which will hurt you, your kids, and those around you. Imagine Angelus, if you'd stayed with your first wife. If you'd listened to yourself now, and never divorced her. I'm sure you can perfectly comprehend that it would be hurting as lot. And that's meant to do you good? For starters, you'd never have dated Val. Or dated Char. And you and Clarissa would still just be mates. So your divorce lead to something good. Your 'sin' lead to three great girls. And yet you sit there and say what you have been saying. Marriage should be about love, because that is what keeps people together, nothing else. Adding God is irrelevant, he does nothing for the whole process.
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Post by VampireAngelus on Dec 16, 2004 14:45:47 GMT -5
Because love is not a sin. Calling love a perversion... come off it. No, save you to do that. I suppose he wasn't a Jew either? And that you know for sure he was born in Bethlehem. And yet you still go to a church. Tell me Angelus, if you follow God's will, then why aren't you all doing what Jesus did and giving all of your possesions to the needy? So love doesn't count? Divorce rate is nothing to do with God, it's to do with love. If people don't love each other, then they break apart. What has God got to do with that? All he forces you to do is stay in a loveless marriage which will hurt you, your kids, and those around you. Imagine Angelus, if you'd stayed with your first wife. If you'd listened to yourself now, and never divorced her. I'm sure you can perfectly comprehend that it would be hurting as lot. And that's meant to do you good? For starters, you'd never have dated Val. Or dated Char. And you and Clarissa would still just be mates. So your divorce lead to something good. Your 'sin' lead to three great girls. And yet you sit there and say what you have been saying. Marriage should be about love, because that is what keeps people together, nothing else. Adding God is irrelevant, he does nothing for the whole process. But that sicko really thinks he 'loves' little Billy. Just because it feels like 'love' dosen't mean its not 'lust' and is doesn't mean its not a sin. He WAS a jew, it says so. And I'm positive he was born in Bethleham. I highly doubt it was on December 25th...but Yes, I still go to church, but if they were to ever start moving in the direction of 'marrying the world' as alot of churches have, I would leave. I do give alot to charity, As for the "sell your posessions and follow me" God hasn't told me to. And to be entirely honest, I don't know if I would be a strong enough christian to do it if he did. I would like to say I would, but I truthfully don't know. I'm not saying love does not play apart, but not lust or perversion. And homosexuality is both. I am a firm believer in that if you follow the path God has for you, and you meet the person designed for you, you will never fall out of love. My first marraige, you are absolutly right MW. If I would have stayed with her, odds are, I wouldn't be alive today. I would have either died of an OD, drank myself to death, or finally got so desperate, I would have pulled the trigger of that shotgun I stuck in my mouth every few days. You know the torture I went through, and you're right MW, the church turned on me when I filed for divorce. And I hated God and his followers for not understanding the abuse I sustained. The conclusion I came to is that I wasn't living for God when I married Jennifer, so what resulted was my own fault. Valerie was an angel, maybe not literally, but she was a godsend, I really beleive that. She touched anyone she ever met. (You can atest to that MW) I never would have had the strength to get through that period of my life without her. As troubled as her past was, all she cared about was other people. I still miss her so much it hurts, and although I love Clarissa, part of me died with Val, a part that noone else will ever see. You probably think I should hate God for taking her away, and I did...but I have to believe that all things happen for a purpose, and that she and that baby are in a better place now than we are, if I didn't have that belief, I may as well have been in that car with her, becuase my life has no meaning. Charity, that's a little complex. I don't know if that was God's will, or I was just trying to find a light to fill the darkness left from Val's accident. I think she is with the person she was meant to be with now. And Clarissa, maybe she's the one, the one created for me to find, we've known each other for the better part of our entire lives. It feels right, but I don't know. It is a paradox, at least as my life has unfolded, divorce is wrong, but I can't beleive God would have wanted me to stay with Jennifer. She did cheat on me, which in the Bible is a valid reason for divorce. But you know that's not why I left. But if Would hve been following God at that time, I never would have married Jenny. I guess if you can find my answer in my long sob story there....than that's your answer
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Post by Lord MIW on Dec 17, 2004 18:20:23 GMT -5
It's still not proper love. It can't be, not least because the kid doesn't understand, but because the paedo's thoughts would be clouded.
I know it does. It also makes no mention of Bethlehem being the birth place. That had to be assumed.
The church refers to a body of Christians. Why be in a body, when you can worship to your own terms and not risk buying into the corruption?
I suppose you mean the soulmate. Plenty of non-religious people find them.
So even religion forced you into going through that for longer?
Val sinned. As you've said yourself, even if a sinner was a good person...
The only answer I see is that marriage is love, God need not be involved. Problemo solved.
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Post by The Awesome One on Dec 17, 2004 22:45:57 GMT -5
Agreed. I highly doubt that every single person in this world is religious and got married FOR God. They god married for love. If you got married for God because God told you to it woldn't exactly be for love like it should be now would it? If you got married for God and then the marriage ended in divorce does that mean it's like the end of the world? And if you love someone enough to spend the rest of your life with what does the divorce rate matter? It doesn't matter who that person happens to be, love is love. You can't change that, you can't pick who you fall in love with it just happens. And Angelus, you're right about the lust part, but not in all cases. If a man loves a man you can't just say it's lust when you can't actually know what they feel. Lust will go away eventually, but love won't. Love has nothing to do with God and it shouldn't have anything to do with God.
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Post by Seraphim on Dec 18, 2004 16:55:21 GMT -5
Guys, you make it sound like when christian gets married and recognizes it as a union before God that they picked some random person and said, "I'm going to marry you for God." There is love in a christian marriage, its just different. The vows that everyone seems to take so lightly weigh heavier as they should. When you say till death do you part, its best that you mean it.
What I mean when I say people should recognize it as a union before God is that it isn't just words, its not just a peice of paper. Its a promise to love that person and to stay with that person through thick and thin. its just a reminder that the people sitting in the chairs aren't the only ones watching the wedding take place. Its a bigger commitement than people realize. When you promise to love someone till death, that means till death, not until you get tired of them.
I don't think the majority of gay marrages would last, I don't think they want to get married because they love their partner, I think they want to get married so they could get the rights of a heterosexual married couple. I don't think they're fighting so hard because all these couples are in love and want to married they're partner, they want attention, they want to be equal. This sudden focus on gay marriage isn't brought on by a sudden outbreak of Gay love, its a movement for rights. Where's the love in that?
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Post by The Awesome One on Dec 18, 2004 17:46:04 GMT -5
Even if they were just doing this to be treated equally why shouldn't they? Why should they have to walk around and be judged and treated like a lower life form? There's nothing wrong with wanting to feel as good as another person. No one should be treated like they aren't equal because of a stupid sin. If they were a bunch of serial killers then I would understand, but they arent.
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Post by VampireAngelus on Dec 19, 2004 13:33:40 GMT -5
Val sinned. As you've said yourself, even if a sinner was a good person... Yeah, And don't think that though dosen't dwell in my head sometimes. But the truth is, she was saved before I was. Yeah she had gotton pregnant when we weren't married, but we were a month away from our wedding, and although we were still living together, we stopped doing that (more her idea than mine, as I said, she was the saved one, I was just going through the motions) So I truely beleive she had a clean slate when she met that drunk kid on the interstate. We were fighting alot that week, tension about the wedding. But I know she was clensed of her sins. Valerie is in heaven, where she deserved to be
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Post by Seraphim on Dec 19, 2004 17:40:02 GMT -5
Even if they were just doing this to be treated equally why shouldn't they? Why should they have to walk around and be judged and treated like a lower life form? There's nothing wrong with wanting to feel as good as another person. No one should be treated like they aren't equal because of a stupid sin. If they were a bunch of serial killers then I would understand, but they arent. You guys were talking about how marriage should be for love, now suddenly its okay to get married for the sake of equal rights?
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Post by The Awesome One on Dec 19, 2004 19:41:42 GMT -5
Your the one who's convinced that that's the real reason for it so I'm just responding to what you said.
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Post by The Weak's End on Dec 19, 2004 19:51:11 GMT -5
people get married because they love each other....nothng else to it....end of story....God(even if he is real) doesnt have anything to do with it.....
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Post by Seraphim on Dec 19, 2004 19:51:38 GMT -5
Okay, are you ready this is what happened. I said Gay marriage was wrong...we went through the whole God thing, you said marriage should be for love and have nothing to do with God, I said that it isn't for love anyways (refuting your point) to which you responded that it was okay to do that, I questioned to see if that was a correct inference. Thats where we are.
I probably stomped on our toes...I'm a bit of a smart ass here lately
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Post by The Weak's End on Dec 19, 2004 19:56:00 GMT -5
come again??
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Post by Seraphim on Dec 19, 2004 20:01:46 GMT -5
I was talking to shylox
Um if God does exist he does have something to do with it, but you don't think he exists so to you he has nothing to do with it, but to us chrisitians he has alot to do with it.
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Post by The Awesome One on Dec 19, 2004 20:02:19 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's the right thing to do but if religious people are doing it just cuz God said so, what's the difference?
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Post by Seraphim on Dec 19, 2004 20:16:53 GMT -5
We're not doing it because God says so. It not a commandment 'thou shalt get married' We do it because we love the other person, we just recognize it as a promise before the God we love to love that person, and treasure that person until the day we die.
We do it for love and we mean it. Thats alot different from doing it for Gay rights.
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